Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2020 11:29:58 GMT
This is something I've been thinking about the last few weeks to be honest and only really started having a conversation about with others in the Skyrim Mafia Graveyard.
Disclaimer: Please note that I'll be using words like "normal", "average", "typical" etc in order to create a basic level understanding of where I'm coming from. I don't believe that there is any difference other than perceived ones between neurodiverse individuals and neurotypical individuals, but rather in how the differences have been forced to exist as a result of social constructs that value things like productivity, functionality and ability and then using those parameters to judge neurodiverse individuals. It's not meant to be ableist.
If I fail at expressing what I want to express, please correct me because I'm always willing to listen, learn and grow.
Just to set things straight a bit. What is ND. ND is becoming a commonly used identifier for neurodiverse individuals at least on discord servers that I'm on. In the last few years, there's a growing movement largely started on the internet to make spaces safer and more inclusive for ND's where their various feelings, thoughts, behaviors, triggers etc are understood and accepted by the community which is a different approach from having to put the onus on NDs to *fix themselves* before allowing them to participate in exclusive communities that favor neurotypicals. Imho (and some anecdotal research as well as a growing body of thinking is suggesting) that ND individuals having to force themselves to *fix* themselves to function adequately in neurotypical spaces ends up adding even more pressure that can trigger ND symptoms to something that is just simpler for someone else and this shows up in work, school, play, home life and even simple tasks.
I want to talk about this specific to mafia since we're a mafia community and just open it up for discussion as to how to make games more inclusive for people that fall outside the neurotypical "norms". I think this space is inclusive enough and I have been in a lot of games where people's IRL struggles and issues are taken into considering on an ad-hoc basis, but at the same time, I think we need to be more open with regards to how we approach a situation where a game where literally everything is up for discussion may have certain limits placed on what is considered sportsmanship. Just add something where an individual struggling to contribute in-game doesn't end up triggering and aggravating what they're living with outside of the game.
I think we need to stop thinking that Mafia is "just a game". It's fine to call it that, but all the evidence I've seen in my five years of playing suggests that it *can* be a game, but also *very* serious - and there's really nothing wrong with someone taking it seriously either. It's none of my business whether someone takes this seriously or not. My personal goal is to be inclusive, accepting and give people a chance to contribute and play.
My first solution to the problem is a 1-time immunity awarded as per consensus within the game to someone struggling, withdrawing and not contributing. So I made that suggestion in the graveyard and these were some of the responses I got, I think ... I can never be sure tbh.
I've pre-empted some of these and have seen others say them (but may not be able to be exact in replication because of my shitty memory so this isn't personal or directed at anyone. I just remember it being said, or maybe even my own brain cooked it up. It happens ... That's part of the gambit of issues I personally struggle with):
1. It's special treatment (I disagree and will elaborate more later)
2. It's unfair to some players.
3. People can rep out if they are struggling
4. (feel free to add your objection and I'll address it in the thread.
My responses to the above:
1. Well, to consider this as "special treatment" it would have to be that everyone *starts* at the exact same level. It's easier to see this when we look at physical diversity ... It's about accessibility and accessibility is not special treatment. Ramps for example, are not special treatment. They just make climbing more accessible. Secondly, if the established norm is to have immunity and everyone knows that they're signing up for a game that has that option for ND players then it's not special treatment anymore. It's just part of the game. Everyone knows what they're getting into and it doesn't have to be every single game either.
2. Again, if it's a game where it's specifically state at the outset that it's ND inclusive with immunity, it becomes a part of the game. Plus it's up to the player themselves to self-police when they use it too because misuse hurts every other ND and makes the situation even harder for them.
3. I honestly don't believe that the choice should be between repping out or playing. I'm personally searching/looking for a middle ground where NDs can play and not have to deal with needing to rep out or get lynched
I'll add more thoughts as I post in the thread. But I just wanted to start the discussion with this thread. This isn't about any one person or specific people. It's about everyone cuz we're a mix of individuals and mafia is a team game.
Even if the discussion doesn't result in any concrete solutions, maybe just having it might contribute to more inclusion :shrug:
Disclaimer: Please note that I'll be using words like "normal", "average", "typical" etc in order to create a basic level understanding of where I'm coming from. I don't believe that there is any difference other than perceived ones between neurodiverse individuals and neurotypical individuals, but rather in how the differences have been forced to exist as a result of social constructs that value things like productivity, functionality and ability and then using those parameters to judge neurodiverse individuals. It's not meant to be ableist.
If I fail at expressing what I want to express, please correct me because I'm always willing to listen, learn and grow.
Just to set things straight a bit. What is ND. ND is becoming a commonly used identifier for neurodiverse individuals at least on discord servers that I'm on. In the last few years, there's a growing movement largely started on the internet to make spaces safer and more inclusive for ND's where their various feelings, thoughts, behaviors, triggers etc are understood and accepted by the community which is a different approach from having to put the onus on NDs to *fix themselves* before allowing them to participate in exclusive communities that favor neurotypicals. Imho (and some anecdotal research as well as a growing body of thinking is suggesting) that ND individuals having to force themselves to *fix* themselves to function adequately in neurotypical spaces ends up adding even more pressure that can trigger ND symptoms to something that is just simpler for someone else and this shows up in work, school, play, home life and even simple tasks.
I want to talk about this specific to mafia since we're a mafia community and just open it up for discussion as to how to make games more inclusive for people that fall outside the neurotypical "norms". I think this space is inclusive enough and I have been in a lot of games where people's IRL struggles and issues are taken into considering on an ad-hoc basis, but at the same time, I think we need to be more open with regards to how we approach a situation where a game where literally everything is up for discussion may have certain limits placed on what is considered sportsmanship. Just add something where an individual struggling to contribute in-game doesn't end up triggering and aggravating what they're living with outside of the game.
I think we need to stop thinking that Mafia is "just a game". It's fine to call it that, but all the evidence I've seen in my five years of playing suggests that it *can* be a game, but also *very* serious - and there's really nothing wrong with someone taking it seriously either. It's none of my business whether someone takes this seriously or not. My personal goal is to be inclusive, accepting and give people a chance to contribute and play.
My first solution to the problem is a 1-time immunity awarded as per consensus within the game to someone struggling, withdrawing and not contributing. So I made that suggestion in the graveyard and these were some of the responses I got, I think ... I can never be sure tbh.
I've pre-empted some of these and have seen others say them (but may not be able to be exact in replication because of my shitty memory so this isn't personal or directed at anyone. I just remember it being said, or maybe even my own brain cooked it up. It happens ... That's part of the gambit of issues I personally struggle with):
1. It's special treatment (I disagree and will elaborate more later)
2. It's unfair to some players.
3. People can rep out if they are struggling
4. (feel free to add your objection and I'll address it in the thread.
My responses to the above:
1. Well, to consider this as "special treatment" it would have to be that everyone *starts* at the exact same level. It's easier to see this when we look at physical diversity ... It's about accessibility and accessibility is not special treatment. Ramps for example, are not special treatment. They just make climbing more accessible. Secondly, if the established norm is to have immunity and everyone knows that they're signing up for a game that has that option for ND players then it's not special treatment anymore. It's just part of the game. Everyone knows what they're getting into and it doesn't have to be every single game either.
2. Again, if it's a game where it's specifically state at the outset that it's ND inclusive with immunity, it becomes a part of the game. Plus it's up to the player themselves to self-police when they use it too because misuse hurts every other ND and makes the situation even harder for them.
3. I honestly don't believe that the choice should be between repping out or playing. I'm personally searching/looking for a middle ground where NDs can play and not have to deal with needing to rep out or get lynched
I'll add more thoughts as I post in the thread. But I just wanted to start the discussion with this thread. This isn't about any one person or specific people. It's about everyone cuz we're a mix of individuals and mafia is a team game.
Even if the discussion doesn't result in any concrete solutions, maybe just having it might contribute to more inclusion :shrug: