Post by Siggy on Nov 30, 2020 22:33:40 GMT
Reprinted from a class we had on PerC
Good Day everyone. Welcome to Game mod 101. Pain and I will be hosting this, with questions and discussions.
So lets begin
Module 1 The mod qt:aka mission control. The place where all decisions are discussed and actions posted. Sub-forum mods and others need to know how you got from point a to point b. Its a paper trail where anyone can read it and follow along. Best to have too much info than too little
What needs to be in there:
1. links to all qts
2. vote counts or links to them in the game thread
3. countdown timer
4. flavor
5. discussion related to anything that requires an action by the mods or the subforum mods
a.) disciplinary actions.
re-rand.
c) calling a game.
d) closing threads
e) replacements.
f.night actions ( if not a separate qt) and conflicts
g.game ending.
Glenda Gnome Starr said:
How do you decide when it's necessary to call a game?
The major one and the one that we have seen here is when players alignments have been revealed. This means a player outing all of his/her scum/mason mates.
Or if there were mod errors that impacts win-cons; eg Night action errors, vote count mistakes leading to the wrong player being lynched n/k
Now if its early in the game, a re-rand is possible.
Also if there are major fights leading to nasty grams, and hostility. This is rare as the game mods should be on top of things.But alot could happen in a short-time.
Vote counts:
Vote counts should be done regularly and in a timely fashion. What that means in real terms is somewhat variable - if you've been gone for three hours and come back to 200 posts, there's a good chance you need a vote count, even if very little has changed. If you come back to 20 posts and no votes, it's not necessary. If you come back to 20 posts and multiple votes, go ahead and do the vote count.
Even in a slow game you ought to have one at least every twelve hours or so, just so players know that you are around and monitoring the thread. If you can't be around that often, make sure your comod can be around.
You will almost always need to do vote counts more closely together towards end of day as players are finalizing their votes, so plan your phase change times accordingly.
It's fine to allow players to notify you of mistakes in thread or by PM. Keeps everything in one place.
It's a good idea to include the timer, plus any reminders of twilight rules - is there a twilight, is the timer to end of day or to twilight, is talking allowed in twilight, etc.
What do you think is the quickest and most efficient method of doing a VC?
The easiest way for me is when I'm at a computer - go to my last vote count, quote it in one tab (remove quote formatting), then skim from there to the end looking for votes and manually updating as I go.
If I'm gonna be out somewhere doing one on phone, I keep a notepad to write them down as I go.
Honestly vote counts are a weak spot for me, so I would like to hear from others on this.
Computer/laptop:
Go to most recent VC. Remember the post# of the most recent VC. Control+F searching for the word 'vote' or ideally '<<' if that's part of the voting requirements, and then just write down on notepad all votes you come across to by typing 'dizzy votes ashes'. If Dizzy has made multiple votes by this VC catch up, then erase the less recent ones from the notepad. Make sure to get rid of Dizzy's vote on the most recent VC, and put his most recent vote change where it should be. This all by quoting and adjusting the most recent VC post, of course.
What I like to do for a VC is quote the last vote count and every vote after, then I click reply to thread and then go advanced so I can look at them all together.
I’ll ctrl+f to search for key word (vote) or << but it depends for vc either I’ll put in a excel with post number or if co/mod I’ll put players names in a notepad/word on computer to cut/paste names as players change voted going person x (cut) to y (paste).
Each game, I create a template for vote counts in a Notepad file (well, I usually have one leftover because my template doesn't really change). Whenever I post a vote count, I update the file with the current vote. The next time I go to do one, I open the thread to wherever the most recent VC was and just scroll through post-by-post looking for what I specify is necessary for votes to count (bold red). I make the adjustments in the notepad file as I go, save it when I'm caught up, and then copy the template into the post editor.
If I'm REALLY far behind and deadline is getting close, I might do a ctrl + F, but since I don't require brackets usually all I could do is search for "vote". That returns a lot of false positives so seems pointless.
I've always appreciated that you quote the vote in your vote counts. It's not efficient, it's more work, but it is really nice to be able to backtrack and see the context.
I've always questioned doing this. It's way more work for the mods, and having everything consolidated seems like a pretty reasonable boon for town, so i always feel like if I'm doing it as the mod I'm putting mafia at a disadvantage. Granted, they can use vote history to push mislynches, but I dunno that it's equally useful for mafia as it is for town solving.
In the grand scheme of things, I'm sure it objectively affects nothing but just one of those things that feels iffy to me.
Sometimes I'll use a spreadsheet to track where everyone's votes have been all game - with post number across the top and player being voted for down the side, then write the voter's name in the cell itself. Obviously only track posts that have a vote in or it'd be hella wide. Then all you have to do when it comes to making the vote count is read off the most recent column. It's a bit maximum effort but hey.
Belzy said:
anyone can dig up the votes, but i understand your point where the effort has already been made by the mod; it shouldn't matter, really, and in my opinion mod's freedom how to work with the VC.
Oh, absolutely. I would never tell someone they shouldn't/aren't allowed to do it. Just that I don't know I would ever feel comfortable doing it, myself.
Glenda Gnome Starr said:
Can you talk about actions by mods and when it's necessary for subforum mods to step in?
Also, can you talk about what to do when there is a tie in a lynch vote?
When do we intervene when we are not called.
1. Game mod has been AWOL. vote counts not done, questions in qts not answered ect.
2. A game rule broken without consequences; eg player talking to other players outside of role, personal attacks.
3. In open games, a change of mechanics mid game.
4. Breaking forum rules and getting an infraction.
Now in regards to #1, this can be avoided by having a co-mod and/or asking for help if something comes up( getting sick) and you need help.
When there is a tie in the lynch vote. Depends on the mechanics stated in the OP. So it could be both, neither, RNG or another way. This will be stated in the OP of the game thread,
When to call the cops...err sub-forum mods
A member who isnt playing , posts in game thread. Please Do not entertain the member, as its just more clean up work
-You've got an ongoing situation in which a player is breaking rules and won't stop
-You've got a potentially game breaking rule violation or forum rule violation and need help.
-On the same note: If things are serious and or unceasing, shut the game down temporarily for damage control, and to give time for a discussion amongst yourselves and admins. Lock the thread if necessary.
-You are unsure whether a line has been crossed.
-Mention us any time you need to give a mod warning for behavior, and quote the rule being broken.
The above applies to Qts/discord not just the game thread.
Game reviews by sub-forum moderators
Games where there is at least one in thread warning, qt warnings, multiple antagonistic players, anything which isnt black and white.
Sub-forum mods re-read the thread and the qts to see what went wrong and what possible actions can prevent things from occurring again. Also see if any disciplinary actions are necessary.
Also just because a player does not sit in the penalty box, doesnt mean the behaviour was ignored. We send out PMs to discuss problematic posts and actions.
Co-mods.
Comod should be able to help with:
1. To have someone else available at phase changes.
2. Help with vote counts especially when the thread is moving quickly
3. Answer questions in qts or at the very least notify the game mod of the question.
4. To discuss problems in the game, and come up with solutions.
5. Request replacements in the sign up thread, and send a PM to the new player.
6. Help with flavor as need be.
The larger and the more complex the game the more this becomes imperative. If you cant keep up then we will step in as a comod or ask that you find one. Preferably the latter.
Co-mods should be established before sign ups to discuss duties, schedules and other logistics. They should not be passive spectators, but actively involved in helping with the game.
Good Day everyone. Welcome to Game mod 101. Pain and I will be hosting this, with questions and discussions.
So lets begin
Module 1 The mod qt:aka mission control. The place where all decisions are discussed and actions posted. Sub-forum mods and others need to know how you got from point a to point b. Its a paper trail where anyone can read it and follow along. Best to have too much info than too little
What needs to be in there:
1. links to all qts
2. vote counts or links to them in the game thread
3. countdown timer
4. flavor
5. discussion related to anything that requires an action by the mods or the subforum mods
a.) disciplinary actions.
re-rand.
c) calling a game.
d) closing threads
e) replacements.
f.night actions ( if not a separate qt) and conflicts
g.game ending.
Glenda Gnome Starr said:
How do you decide when it's necessary to call a game?
The major one and the one that we have seen here is when players alignments have been revealed. This means a player outing all of his/her scum/mason mates.
Or if there were mod errors that impacts win-cons; eg Night action errors, vote count mistakes leading to the wrong player being lynched n/k
Now if its early in the game, a re-rand is possible.
Also if there are major fights leading to nasty grams, and hostility. This is rare as the game mods should be on top of things.But alot could happen in a short-time.
Vote counts:
Vote counts should be done regularly and in a timely fashion. What that means in real terms is somewhat variable - if you've been gone for three hours and come back to 200 posts, there's a good chance you need a vote count, even if very little has changed. If you come back to 20 posts and no votes, it's not necessary. If you come back to 20 posts and multiple votes, go ahead and do the vote count.
Even in a slow game you ought to have one at least every twelve hours or so, just so players know that you are around and monitoring the thread. If you can't be around that often, make sure your comod can be around.
You will almost always need to do vote counts more closely together towards end of day as players are finalizing their votes, so plan your phase change times accordingly.
It's fine to allow players to notify you of mistakes in thread or by PM. Keeps everything in one place.
It's a good idea to include the timer, plus any reminders of twilight rules - is there a twilight, is the timer to end of day or to twilight, is talking allowed in twilight, etc.
What do you think is the quickest and most efficient method of doing a VC?
The easiest way for me is when I'm at a computer - go to my last vote count, quote it in one tab (remove quote formatting), then skim from there to the end looking for votes and manually updating as I go.
If I'm gonna be out somewhere doing one on phone, I keep a notepad to write them down as I go.
Honestly vote counts are a weak spot for me, so I would like to hear from others on this.
Computer/laptop:
Go to most recent VC. Remember the post# of the most recent VC. Control+F searching for the word 'vote' or ideally '<<' if that's part of the voting requirements, and then just write down on notepad all votes you come across to by typing 'dizzy votes ashes'. If Dizzy has made multiple votes by this VC catch up, then erase the less recent ones from the notepad. Make sure to get rid of Dizzy's vote on the most recent VC, and put his most recent vote change where it should be. This all by quoting and adjusting the most recent VC post, of course.
What I like to do for a VC is quote the last vote count and every vote after, then I click reply to thread and then go advanced so I can look at them all together.
I’ll ctrl+f to search for key word (vote) or << but it depends for vc either I’ll put in a excel with post number or if co/mod I’ll put players names in a notepad/word on computer to cut/paste names as players change voted going person x (cut) to y (paste).
Each game, I create a template for vote counts in a Notepad file (well, I usually have one leftover because my template doesn't really change). Whenever I post a vote count, I update the file with the current vote. The next time I go to do one, I open the thread to wherever the most recent VC was and just scroll through post-by-post looking for what I specify is necessary for votes to count (bold red). I make the adjustments in the notepad file as I go, save it when I'm caught up, and then copy the template into the post editor.
If I'm REALLY far behind and deadline is getting close, I might do a ctrl + F, but since I don't require brackets usually all I could do is search for "vote". That returns a lot of false positives so seems pointless.
I've always appreciated that you quote the vote in your vote counts. It's not efficient, it's more work, but it is really nice to be able to backtrack and see the context.
I've always questioned doing this. It's way more work for the mods, and having everything consolidated seems like a pretty reasonable boon for town, so i always feel like if I'm doing it as the mod I'm putting mafia at a disadvantage. Granted, they can use vote history to push mislynches, but I dunno that it's equally useful for mafia as it is for town solving.
In the grand scheme of things, I'm sure it objectively affects nothing but just one of those things that feels iffy to me.
Sometimes I'll use a spreadsheet to track where everyone's votes have been all game - with post number across the top and player being voted for down the side, then write the voter's name in the cell itself. Obviously only track posts that have a vote in or it'd be hella wide. Then all you have to do when it comes to making the vote count is read off the most recent column. It's a bit maximum effort but hey.
Belzy said:
anyone can dig up the votes, but i understand your point where the effort has already been made by the mod; it shouldn't matter, really, and in my opinion mod's freedom how to work with the VC.
Oh, absolutely. I would never tell someone they shouldn't/aren't allowed to do it. Just that I don't know I would ever feel comfortable doing it, myself.
Glenda Gnome Starr said:
Can you talk about actions by mods and when it's necessary for subforum mods to step in?
Also, can you talk about what to do when there is a tie in a lynch vote?
When do we intervene when we are not called.
1. Game mod has been AWOL. vote counts not done, questions in qts not answered ect.
2. A game rule broken without consequences; eg player talking to other players outside of role, personal attacks.
3. In open games, a change of mechanics mid game.
4. Breaking forum rules and getting an infraction.
Now in regards to #1, this can be avoided by having a co-mod and/or asking for help if something comes up( getting sick) and you need help.
When there is a tie in the lynch vote. Depends on the mechanics stated in the OP. So it could be both, neither, RNG or another way. This will be stated in the OP of the game thread,
When to call the cops...err sub-forum mods
A member who isnt playing , posts in game thread. Please Do not entertain the member, as its just more clean up work
-You've got an ongoing situation in which a player is breaking rules and won't stop
-You've got a potentially game breaking rule violation or forum rule violation and need help.
-On the same note: If things are serious and or unceasing, shut the game down temporarily for damage control, and to give time for a discussion amongst yourselves and admins. Lock the thread if necessary.
-You are unsure whether a line has been crossed.
-Mention us any time you need to give a mod warning for behavior, and quote the rule being broken.
The above applies to Qts/discord not just the game thread.
Game reviews by sub-forum moderators
Games where there is at least one in thread warning, qt warnings, multiple antagonistic players, anything which isnt black and white.
Sub-forum mods re-read the thread and the qts to see what went wrong and what possible actions can prevent things from occurring again. Also see if any disciplinary actions are necessary.
Also just because a player does not sit in the penalty box, doesnt mean the behaviour was ignored. We send out PMs to discuss problematic posts and actions.
Co-mods.
Comod should be able to help with:
1. To have someone else available at phase changes.
2. Help with vote counts especially when the thread is moving quickly
3. Answer questions in qts or at the very least notify the game mod of the question.
4. To discuss problems in the game, and come up with solutions.
5. Request replacements in the sign up thread, and send a PM to the new player.
6. Help with flavor as need be.
The larger and the more complex the game the more this becomes imperative. If you cant keep up then we will step in as a comod or ask that you find one. Preferably the latter.
Co-mods should be established before sign ups to discuss duties, schedules and other logistics. They should not be passive spectators, but actively involved in helping with the game.